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posted 12/18/2010 7:55:26 PM |
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  stormrider

wonder why people who recieve welfare dont have to take drug tests and people who work do???????

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sharedwifeinmo

Dec 18 @ 11:59PM  
This is just a theory, but the states don't want to lose their funding.

The amount of funding received is directly proportionate to the number of people enrolled. Positive drug tests can get one kicked out of the system, causing enrollment to go down, thus reducing the money available.

Then again, it could be something as simple as sitting around collecting from taxpayers being less hazardous than operating a crane. Who knows? I wish they would start testing.
B9CC1D

Dec 19 @ 1:46AM  
Well, since I was a pedestrian hit by a construction van, I'd say that my situation has more to do with permanent spinal damage than substance abuse.

Not everyone on welfare is a leach.

Get over it.
ladybootscooter

Dec 19 @ 10:41AM  
To Dom, This is true. And there are those like you that have valid excuses for asking for help.

But when I sit in the courtroom 12-15 days per month and listen to hundreds of folks with drug addiction/ possession/ possession w/ intent to sell problems state over and over on the record when asked "Where do you plan on being employed if granted probation?"

Oh, I can't work, I'm:
"on disability"
"trying to get my disability"
"my husband/wife/family, plans to get their disability and ...."
"I should be getting my back pay on my disability"

The list goes on, and on and on. Excuse me, you were able to run through 5 miles of woods in the dark, when the meth lab you were running was raided by law enforcement, or........you were able to break into someone's house and steal them blind, or........you were able to go the marina and steal a boat motor worth thousands of dollars.....or the whole, you are neglecting your children and or not paying your child support, but you're able to buy drugs and you're drawing government assistance and/or you're claiming you are disabled. I mean no offense to you on this matter, as we are all well aware of your situation. But there are many out there that abuse the system. If you're on probation you have to perform daily BA's, or wear a SCRAM system or use an interlock ignition in your vehicle. If you test positive for drugs or alcohol, it's a violation of your probation conditions, but it doesn't stop that government check/ aid unless you wind up in jail.

Add to that several people I know that completely and totally abuse the system. Sadly some of my family was in that group until she died of an overdose. She was in her 50's had never worked long enough to even draw unemployment, but she got that disability check when her body broke down from the years of alcohol and meth. She told her caseworker she needed new teeth and glasses to help her find a job, Voila, she got new teeth. I don't think she ever went on a single interview after she got them, but she looked really sharp to go out and party.

If I sound somewhat bitter on this, hell yeah I am. I work, and work damned hard. I put in 50-70 hrs every week on a salary, so yeah those extra's over 40 mean squat to my paycheck. I raised my son as a single mom and was living just above poverty level, but could receive no help when he was little and had numerous health problems and surgeries. I'm still paying off some of the medical bills from those surgeries and he's grown and gone. So yep, this whole subject burns my ass.
sharedwifeinmo

Dec 19 @ 12:18PM  
Not everyone on welfare is a leach.

Did I use the exact words, "Everyone on welfare is a leach" anywhere in my post?

Nope.

I have to say here that I am truly surprised that you would resort to putting words into my mouth/fingers, because everything I have seen in your posts suggests that you would be one of the last people on Earth to do something like that. You're at least a hundred times smarter than that.

The sad truth is that there is a disproportionate number of people in the system that take advantage of it versus people that truly need it.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I really am. I have a cousin who was rearended by a semi-truck that had plowed through 11 head of cattle at 100 mph and is confined to a wheelchair for life. I see him cry almost daily because he misses his independence. So yeah, I know that these things happen.

Lashing out at reality doesn't change it. Doing something about it does. Drug testing does something about it.

B9CC1D

Dec 19 @ 12:31PM  
Actually, having worked as a child's counselor in the inner city I know exactly who you're talking about:

- Families with an income of about $600 a month (There are too many employers that refuse to pay full time wages because that means they have to incorporate added expense to their payouts. Ever try to live on $150 a week? It's not easy.)

- People with long-term mental illness (The number of state-run mental health facilities has been cut by 75% over the last 20 years, leaving these people nowhere to go and little to rely upon but the charity of others.)

- Women and children from abused families (When a woman is suddenly forced to leave her primary breadwinner and go to an income of next to nothing, there is a real problem.)

- Substance abusers (Working with one of the top docs in the country in regards to this, let me assure you that most addictions are not by choice. Most of them are caused by faulty brain chemistry that you're born with. In that case, see "long-term mental illness" above.)

- Ex-convicts (Even if you've gone straight, most jobs with a good pay scale are unavailable to you. I have a neighbor who, despite the fact that he's become a devout Catholic and a model citizen, will probably never make more than part-time minimum wage unloading trucks because he was convicted once.)

- The disabled (Already noted in the other comment I made.)

- Those with long-term physical illness (Although it's against the law to discriminate hiring people based on their illnesses, it is a reality that exists commonly. I've known people that slept with the wrong person once, contracted an incurable disease, and are now effectively banned from most jobs either because of social stigma or because the employer balks at insurance increases.)

The list could go on and on. These aren't people that deserve callousness. They are just human beings trying to cling to the hope of joy that everyone else takes for granted.

However, I will concede that there are a couple of welfare recipients that really do upset me:

- Illegal immigrants (If you do nothing to contribute to the economy, why should you be a drain upon it?)

- High-income welfare recipients (In the United States, the poverty level is currently 21%, this is compared to an average of 10% for most European nations. Despite this, 6,000,000 U.S. welfare recipients are high-income individuals. Sorry, but I have a real problem with someone who makes six or eight figures a year drawing on welfare benefits.)

While there are people who there is no real problem with and they are just "working the system" they really are in the minority and such a small draw against the social welfare system they are negligible. It's a myth that they are prevalent that's used to foster anti-government sentiment, often as part of bi-partisan politics.
B9CC1D

Dec 19 @ 12:34PM  
And as a note to Ladybootscooter, yes, I can understand that, but the courtroom setting you're talking about (while it does bring you into contact with hundreds of people) is not a broad based random sample of the public.

These are people who are before a judge because they have already become part of a problem. It's true, people like that are very annoying, but that shouldn't serve as an excuse to rule-out people that need genuine help.
Wordsofwit

Dec 19 @ 12:56PM  
The problem with any system is that there are people that are very adept at manipulating it.
ladybootscooter

Dec 19 @ 1:19PM  
There you go again Dom, putting words into peoples' mouths. Never anywhere in my post did I say that no one should get help when they need it. This entire blog is about people that are abusing the system with the use of illegal drugs and substances that are getting aid. As I said, it's a condition of probation that you test to remain out of prison. It's a condition of my employment that I test when asked, to retain my employment. Why shouldn't it be a requirement of people drawing aid?

Each court date there are those in court that we have to have step into that little room with a Bailiff to pee in the cup. If they test positive for opiates, barbituates or amphetamines they better have a legal prescription for them or we give them a home for a few months and or years. More often than not they test positive for THC or meth. And no, I'm not talking cancer patients that qualify for THC usage. It's just that damn simple. None of us said people shouldn't get help. Just said those getting aid should be tested. I believe in hand ups, just not hand outs. You can say that I'm only seeing a small portion of the population, but when we are processing several hundred cases per day in a county with a total population of 40,705 as of June 2009, I'm seeing more than just a small portion of the community at large. It's a definite problem in this area. We have one of the highest rates of meth production in the mid west. We also have the second highest rate of child abuse/ molestation rates in the state. Pretty sad when it's a small rural county.

I believe that if the government gives you food stamps to purchase food for your family, it should be used to purchase food for your family. Not beer, not cigarettes and certainly not traded for illegal drugs on the street. You assume that I'm callous to the needs of those with addiction problems, so it might surprise you to know that I'm a founding member of the Drug/ DWI court planning team in our Circuit (5 counties). I've been fighting for years to get this system in place to help those that truly want the help. What you also don't know is that I myself am a former addict. I spent three years many many years ago, wired through my teeth on first legal diet pills and then meth and cocaine. I've been clean since February 16, 1984. (at 10:37 p.m. to be exact) I know how hard it is to beat an addiction, so you're preaching to the choir on that one.

It all comes down to accountability. If you are going to suck at the government teat, you should be willing to be accountable just as those of us employed are. If that is your "income" I see nothing wrong with you being regularly tested to retain said income, just as I am required to retain mine.
tassie1

Dec 19 @ 6:51PM  
i will put my ass in the firing line by agreeing in principal with both LB's comment and B9's.

i dunno if Australia is much differant in these aspects but unfortunately over here, the ppl who abuse the system far outweight the genuine cases who unfortunately usually end up there due to medical conditions etc paying for it by the social stigma attached to being in that situation in the first place.

but i totally agree with Stormys blog, its a very worthy question
sharedwifeinmo

Dec 19 @ 7:44PM  
I believe in hand ups, just not hand outs.

Exactly!
StraddleMyNose

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Dec 20 @ 12:50PM  
I posted this same topic a year or two ago on here. I'm for drug testing people who receive welfare. Fair is fair!

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