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A Sin?

posted 11/18/2009 11:30:06 AM |
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  sundance64

I wrote this a couple of years ago, on another site.

I just started going to Yahoo Q & A...found some interesting questions, and some answers that range from great to greatly uninformed.
One such question was regarding homosexuality and Christianity. Can one be both?
First of all, the question to be asked is: What is a Christian? Is it someone who attends church every week? Tithes to the church and performs acts of charity? Is it someone who lives a 'good, clean' life, doesn't drink or smoke or do drugs or use profane language and take the lord's name in vain? Is it someone who waits until they're married to have sex, and then only has sex with the person they are married to?
Or is it, as some denominations believe, only someone who belongs to a certain sect of Christianity? Be it Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian...etc.
The answer, according to the New Testament is:

None of the above.

A Christian is a person who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal savior.

Simple...right? Ok, so...can someone who is gay be a Christian? What does the bible say about that?

Actually, not a whole lot.

There is one passage in the old testament that refers to homosexuality...most of us have at least heard it, some may have even read it. It basically says that the act of a man lying with another man as if with a woman is an abomination. However, the actual word used in the Torah was "Toevah"...which means two things, in this context it means "unclean act". Along with eating pork and engaging in intercourse during menstruation. Toevah also is used in the context of idolatry, meaning there were sanctions against idol worship.

Christians for the most part don't follow the laws of Judaism, which is basically what Leviticus is. Christians do however pick and choose certain passages in Leviticus and other books of the old testament when it suits, in order to discourage certain practices or ban certain people from their midst. Being a homosexual may seem distasteful to some, but it does not mean a homosexual is a sinner. Homosexuality in and of itself is not a sin. During the time that these laws were written, homosexuality was certainly frowned upon. It promoted disease...if a man had sex with another man and then had sex with a woman...she would probably get some type of bacterial infection. It also wasn't good for the procreation of the race...obviously if two men were only having sex with each other; they weren't doing their part in carrying on the family name!

When you read the Old Testament and look at the time in which it was written, you see that the people it was written for were living in very hard times. They had to have laws in place that would keep illness and disease at bay, and also increase the population (strength in numbers ...). Mostly Leviticus was written in order to keep the Jewish people separate from the Gentiles, who at that time were mostly polytheists and of course God didn't want his chosen people mixing it up with them.
I know there are translations of the old testament that say homosexuality is a "detestable sin". That is not the original verse. As I said before, the word "Toevah" has several translations. I also know there are several passages in the New Testament that do in fact refer to homosexuality as a sin...but look at who wrote those passages. I'm not trying to discredit Paul, but what did Jesus have to say about it? Not a whole lot. He had more important things to think about.
Furthermore, the word Paul used was "para-physin" or unnatural...which could mean against what the natural order of the day was. Does that mean homosexuality is unnatural? Well, that would mean that God made some mistakes. Unless you believe that homosexuals came from Satan, but that would mean Satan has the power of creation and is therefore equal to God? Also, to say homosexuality is "unnatural" is incorrect. It does occur in nature. Not often, but it does.
.. ..
I'm not trying to bash Christians or Jews, nor am I trying to ram any beliefs down anyone's throat. I'm only hoping that some people will read this and take up the challenge to dispute it, but with well informed and well researched arguments...not just what they've been spoon-fed their entire lives.

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Comments:

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sundance64

Nov 18 @ 11:30AM  
A couple of things I want to add here; first is to reiterate that Jesus himself did not have a whole lot to say on the subject of homosexuals. It was the ones after him, the ones who created the church in his name that had issues with homosexuality and were very vocal about it. I'm not even talking about Peter (the first leader of the "Universal" church, the precursor of the Roman Catholic Church) or Paul. I'm talking about the ones who decided which of Jesus' words would be used to teach us simple folk what they wanted us to know.

Again, I'm not bashing Christians or Christianity. What I am bashing are the people who simply repeat what they've been spoon fed their whole lives...or even have read in the modern bible which had been translated and re-translated so many times that there is really no telling what the original intent was. So many words and phrases that were in the bible's original languages were not translatable into modern language, so the closest meanings had to be used. This meant that those who were doing the translated were pretty much given license to use whatever they felt at the time was appropriate.

I often ask myself (and others if the subject comes up...) if todays religion is what Jesus intended. Whether is be Catholic, Baptist or Pentacostal...is he looking at this and applauding or just shaking his head in dismay?
RangeRider

Nov 18 @ 11:41AM  
I am a Christian and a heterosexual and I believe that homosexuality is as normal for some as being straight is for me. I don't believe that what religion you are has anything to do with your sexuality. So my answer would be Yes, you can be both. I am rather happy following the bible verse Luke 6:37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

I think that verse right there, if everyone followed it, no matter what their religious background would be, well, the world would be a nicer place to be in.
soft_touch938

Nov 18 @ 1:19PM  
I'm not trying to discredit Paul, but what did Jesus have to say about it?

Well, who taught Paul?

I believe the Bible says..Hate the sin but love the sinner.

The answers you seek are in the Bible...no man need interpret the Bible...if one studies it correctly, the Bible interprets itself....the answers are there to be found.

It's amazing how simple the gospels are...it's people that try to muddy them up with their own ideas....usually to justify what fits their own comfort zone.

Homosexuality...sin or not? What difference does it make as long as one walks in love without judgment. Every person must live their lives according to their own conscience and that's God's job to deal with...not mine. My job is to plant seeds according to the gospels and others to water and cultivate and it's the Holy Spirit's job to bring in the harvest of souls.

The trick is walking in non-judgmental love....love the sinner, hate the sin.
ShadowMale

Nov 18 @ 2:05PM  
However, the actual word used in the Torah was "Toevah"...which means two things, in this context it means "unclean act". Along with eating pork and engaging in intercourse during menstruation. Toevah also is used in the context of idolatry, meaning there were sanctions against idol worship.

Many religions that follow Jehovah God see pork as "unclean." How they deal with it is widely different among them. However, for the ones that see "unclean" as a total restriction, why would abstaining from eating pork be any different then homosexuality? By this thought pattern, not eating pork but being homosexual would be a complete contradition to their religion.

The thing is though, if you dig deeper, is that it's not just pork that is seen as unclean, but also the butt area of any animal that was a main source of food during those times. The reason the whole pig is considered unclean is be cause it lays in its own feces. It is from feces that this uncleanliness comes from. Therefore, it can been seen that any and all butts are therefore equally unclean. The whole reason for that is to present the next point. Anal sex with anyone, male or female is known to carry a hefty set of risks without a lot of precaution. Granted deseases are also spread vaginally, but only if one person was already infected. Anal sex on the other hand can produce a new infection. And that is the main reason this is seen as unclean, even in those times. The bible are a collection of teachings. Teachings are meant to inform you of facts. Butts being unclean is a fact.

Furthermore, the word Paul used was "para-physin" or unnatural...which could mean against what the natural order of the day was. Does that mean homosexuality is unnatural? Well, that would mean that God made some mistakes. Unless you believe that homosexuals came from Satan, but that would mean Satan has the power of creation and is therefore equal to God?

Misconception. Homosexuality is not a creation, but a desire, just as heterosexuality is a desire for others. Therefore, no one creates sexuality, and Satan would not have this "power of creation." It is said, however, that satan has power of persausion. Wouldn't the alteration of ones percevieved desires be the power of persuasion, and not creation? Just thought I would mention it.

Does this mean its wrong or a sin? Well that is between you, your religion (whatever it may be) and whoever it is you worship. I'm not here to tell people what they should or should not believe.

However, as some people claim that they don't like others telling them homosexuality is wrong, likewise they shouldn't go around telling everyone is isn't wrong. This works both ways.
sugarnspice005

Nov 18 @ 2:28PM  
I'm reading this, and the comments. I'm not a church goer. I haven't sat down and read the Bible. I admit I've tried, and lost interest. Does that make me a sinner?

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

That is basically how I live my life. I don't judge others. Whatever they chose to do in their lives is their decision. It's not for me to say whether they are wrong or right, sinning or not. People have their own ways of interpreting the Bible. Who are any of us to say whether they are right or wrong?

selectusername

Nov 18 @ 2:51PM  
Nice blog.....

Wannafuck?!
selectusername

Nov 18 @ 3:03PM  
It took numerous horribly aggravating conversations and many
years to finally realize that morons love to argue about
politics and religion. Why? Because it's all opinion and
therefore two subjects where any idiot can be

a know-it-all!

Nope, I'm not implying that you are an idiot. I just wanted
to share that since it may seem obvious to everyone else
but it took me such a long time to grasp it.

Know what I believe? That the moon is made entirely of
Limburger cheese. Yeah I know it's probably bullshit but
I like to believe it anyway. Know why? Cause I'm an

AMERICAN CITIZEN WITH CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

So anyone who doesn't like my silly theory can

kiss my muthafuckin' ass!

frank747

Nov 18 @ 6:39PM  
here here and a here here.
most of my life has been similar to what you are sayin. why not live and let live.. biggest deal for me has been to cause no harm. in any way what so ever.
life is the greatest thing in the world. just lying there dead seems like such a waste of time. like what cha doin man, oh just layin here.
the definition of todays christian, (a good many of them) is: a person who is only partly informed as to what his/her creator wishes them to do.
and by george they feel as though they have to cramm it down everybody elses throat. did or did not GOD the creator give us two great gifts. the first of course was His son's life. the other was FREE CHOICE
i dont know anymore. everyone is right and i am stupid. but guess what, i really do enjoy being alive. hadoona ma tada ladies and dudes. carry on and all that good crap.
if you are both the age of consent and you wont too, then by all means go for it.

love peace and the rest of the stuff that you know what i am talkin about
frank747
JustAnAvatar

Nov 18 @ 10:22PM  
I had a lot of religious traning growing up - went to religious schools and read a lot of old and new testament. I'm not terribly religious anymore but I respect religion. I also learned enough scripture to know that people often pick and choose scripture to justify what they want to believe.

A whole lot of people who quote Leviticus's condemnation of homosexuality pay precious little attention to the sermon on the mount ("what you do for the least of my brothers you do for Me"). And if you're Christian, the New Testament is the more important message.

I just don't believe that people choose to be gay. I couldn't choose to be gay - the desire for another man isn't there and I couldn't make it be there if I wanted to. So why would I think that gay people can just decide to be straight?

If it's not a choice, it's hard for me to see it as a sin. I don't think Jesus did either. He doesn't seem to have said so.
sundance64

Nov 18 @ 10:25PM  
However, as some people claim that they don't like others telling them homosexuality is wrong, likewise they shouldn't go around telling everyone is isn't wrong. This works both ways.

I've had several discussions about this topic...someone saying they believe homosexuality is wrong. I ask them why they believe it is wrong...and I tell them why I believe it is not wrong.

Personally, I do not believe anything that occurs in nature is unnatural.
JustAnAvatar

Nov 18 @ 10:34PM  
Wannafuck?!

No. That would be a sin.

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A Sin?