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"Joe" the plumber

posted 10/17/2008 6:46:29 PM |
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tagged: politics, news, rant, straddle
  StraddleMyNose

Good lord, the attack dogs (main stream media) are out in force again, this time trying to discredit a hard working average job who's only fault was asking Obama on his street in Ohio about Obama's tax plan. "Joe" was concerned about his taxes going up since he's a plumber and is thinking of buying his own plumbing business in the near future. "Joe" doesn't like the idea of paying even higher taxes under Obama's plan, and doesn't feel it's right taking his own hard earned money and giving it out to the poor in the "share the wealth" idea. That would be another step toward SOCIALISM. Within 24 hours of that question, the left wing media went after "Joe". They dug up that his real name isn't "Joe", but that his full name is Samuel J. Wurzelbacher ( Joe is his middle name... ). The media went to a business manager of a local United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters, and Service Mechanics based in Toledo, Ohio where that business manager of that union told the media that "Joe" doesn't have a plumbing license. Gee, I don't think "Joe" ever said that he had one. "Joe" is a plumber that works for a plumbing business, and as I recall, one doesn't have to have a license in plumbing, or doesn't have to belong to a union which he isn't. If that wasn't enough, the liberal media also dug up on "Joe" the fact that he owes $1,100 in back taxes. Yep, the liberal media has crossed the line again in trying to destroy descent hard working people who doesn't approve of Obama. Today at Obama's rally Obama himself threw out a few insults toward "Joe". Obama stated that he didn't know very many plumbers making $250,000 a year. Again, Obama plays with the truth knowing good and well "Joe" doesn't make $250,000, that "Joe" is wanting his own plumbing business that will possibly make between $250,000-280,000 one day. That is "Joe's" dream one day, and under Obama, many dreams won't come true. All Obama and Biden wanted to do today is redicule, attack, and make fun at "Joe" and other people like "Joe". Why is it that the liberal media won't research Obama's life with a lot of unanswered questions, but they can research and attack and smear a hard working middle class citizen who raises his 13 year old son? Polls are tightening up today, and Obama and the liberal media knows it.

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Comments:

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maxximuss1967

Oct 17 @ 6:55PM  
The media are driving this election, our economy, and the simple people who don't know any better then to believe them. w/ out research!
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 17 @ 6:57PM  
The media are driving this election, our economy, and the simple people who don't know any better then to believe them.

No shit! The liberal media tends to gloss over facts with liberal spin.
paulywalnuts

Oct 17 @ 7:10PM  
Down with LIBERALISM
StraddleMyNose

online now!
Oct 17 @ 7:13PM  
What's up with people calling one a racist because they wear a t-shirt with McCain-Palin on it, and people who support McCain and Palin? If any group is playing the race card it's the fucking dems/liberals!
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 17 @ 8:10PM  
Oh yeah, and the Chicago Tribune has endorsed Omaba today. Big surprise there...

It was stated that the newspaper had always endorsed Republicans over the years. It being the newspaper in Obama's hometown, and the fact that most media people are liberal these days, nothing surprises me anymore.
evild614

Oct 17 @ 9:06PM  
Joe the plumber is not an economist, and has obviously never so much as picked up a Wall Street Journal, read anything written by Greenspan, much less studied economics. Why is ANYONE paying so much attention to what he has to say? He's a two-bit unlicensed plumber who isn't paying his taxes as they are now, complaining about how he doesn't want to pay more.

Republicans started the war in Iraq, which is going to be a huge tax hike later on down the road, and is money the US economy will never see again. Liberals took it in stride, despite all the warnings by pretty much anyone who can do simple math that war+tax cuts= fiscal suicide. Tax hikes during or immediately after a war are NOT socialism. It's called paying for the war.

Now lets say that not all of it goes towards the war debt (which it won't- if we want to balance the budget completely let's re-elect Clinton). Obama wants to divert some of the tax hike for social programs that that redistribute money within the US economy. And of course conservatives are pitching a fit. It makes absolutely no sense. You pay taxes for war, kiss that money goodbye. You have war without taxes, kiss the college/retirement fund goodbye. You pay taxes for social programs, even if you're lucky enough not to fall into a demographic that needs such programs (and if so, quit yer bitchin'), you will see that money again later on down the road.
Wordsofwit

Oct 17 @ 9:13PM  
When I got by all of the right wing spin and eliminated it, I examined the content of the post and came up with...besides Joe, who gives a rat's fuck about a plumber making a quarter of a mil. a year compared to the rest of us in this economy? Like we can really relate to his problems. I would love to have the problems of somebody making $250,000 a year. Do those problems come with a trophy wife? Better still, a good looking woman that comes with a Budweiser distributorship or that can see Russia from her house?

I am sick and tired of hearing about Joe the plumber even though he seems like a nice guy in his interviews. If Joe is worried about his tax level at the quarter mil. level, his problems are vastly different than the rest Americans who worry about bills, mortgages, and watching their 401Ks evaporate like spit on the sidewalk in August.
swyeter

Oct 18 @ 1:10AM  
I first saw “Joe the Plumber” on FOX in a 30 second sound bite extracted from a 5 minute 47 second conversation to misrepresent his, “I think when you spread the wealth around it’s good for everybody” comment. When you listen to how they presented clip it sounds like he is advocating the Robin Hood tax plan of taking from the rich and giving to the poor. I admit that is how I first took his statement to mean.
:28 clip

However, after listening to the entire video/audio clip it is obvious, at least to me, that is not what he was saying. What I hear is him saying that if you are a small business man he is going to tax you less to help enable you to grow faster and become more successful, BUT, when/if you do succeed to a point where you are making more that $250K he will tax the over $250K at a 3% greater rate than the under $250K. NOT that he is going to tax you at a higher rate to to have money for social programs.
5:47 clip
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 18 @ 3:01AM  
Tax hikes during or immediately after a war are NOT socialism.

Obama's plan takes us closer to socialism

When I got by all of the right wing spin and eliminated it,

Bruce, there was no spin on my part in my blog. What part of my blog do you think was spin? All what I stated are facts, my friend.

swyeter

Oct 18 @ 2:10PM  
Why are they “attack dogs” if what they have reported are facts.

Is it or is it not a fact:
That he does not have a plumber’s license?
That the plumbing business in question consists of owner Al Newell and himself?
That the county he and his employer live in, Lucas County, requires plumbers to have licenses?
That neither Wurzelbacher nor his employer are licensed in Lucas County?
That he cannot practice in the city of Toledo, even working for someone with a master's license?
That he owes almost $1,200 in taxes?
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 18 @ 5:24PM  
Why are they “attack dogs” if what they have reported are facts

They're attack dogs for Obama because they bully and intimidate people by digging up dirt in anyones personal lives that don't agree with Obama. Obama's hands are never dirty because of it either. Is this what we can expect from an Obama administration? Like I stated in my blog, these same media people won't bring to light Obama's shaddy past.
Wordsofwit

Oct 18 @ 10:46PM  
It wouldn't be hard to make this statement : They're attack dogs because they bully and intimidate people by digging up dirt in anyones personal lives that don't agree with Straddle.
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 19 @ 12:00AM  
They're attack dogs because they bully and intimidate people by digging up dirt in anyones personal lives that don't agree with Straddle.

Bruce, change is from Obama to "Straddle" all you want, doesn't make it true. I stand by my statement I made about the drive-by media and Obama. I don't you don't like what I'm saying, but the proof is out there with their actions and smears!
Wordsofwit

Oct 19 @ 12:12AM  
Anyone notice that Joe looks like the star of The Shield?
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 19 @ 12:27AM  
Anyone notice that Joe looks like the star of The Shield?

Didn't that same star play on "The Commish" back in the 90's?
swyeter

Oct 19 @ 3:00AM  
They're attack dogs for Obama because they bully and intimidate people by digging up dirt in anyones personal lives that don't agree with Obama.

As I asked, "How can reporting facts on someone be "dirt" and you did not deny any of them to be facts.

Like I stated in my blog, these same media people won't bring to light Obama's shaddy past.


What dirt. Be for F***ing real. You think if there was any real dirt FOX would not have a dump truck load of it.

StraddleMyNose

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Oct 19 @ 1:59PM  
As I asked, "How can reporting facts on someone be "dirt" and you did not deny any of them to be facts.

John, I did blog on what they came up on "Joe". I did not dispute those parts as truths. You're not getting it. This average joe is not running for anything. Why the fuck should the media go after him, what right do they have to dig into his personal lives? NBC led the charge and went after "Joe" after "Joe" asked a question to Obama that was not very flattering to Obama to where people then saw the real picture on what Obama's plan was actually going to do. Didn't take long for the drive-by to attack 'Joe" like a pack of dogs which they are. To me that's bullying and trying to smear "Joe" in a way to make him look bad at any and all costs.

What dirt. Be for F***ing real. You think if there was any real dirt FOX would not have a dump truck load of it.

Fox News has come up with a lot of evidence and facts on a lot of Obama's shaddy past that CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, and the New York times fail to report and ignore all the way to the election. These main stream media outlets cherry pick their news and seem to only praise Obama and ignoring his ties to ACORN, his association to some shaddy friends which one is an terrorist back 40 years ago and didn't repent and has stated that him and his wife at the time regret not doing more, and preacher who damns America.

Be for F***ing real.

And you think you're being real asking "what dirt" Obama has? I can't believe the blindness you people honestly have!
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 19 @ 3:44PM  
John, have you ever watched Fox News? Last night Greta Van Susteren had a pretty good special on Omaba and his connection with ACORN. Tonight Hannity has a special on Obama and his past associates. I have watch both CNN and MSNBC and I never see them covering any of these. All I see are attacks on McCain and Palin, and other Republicans who are in the news. I haven't see too much of anything over there either on a congressman from Florida who is a dem who replaced Foley (Republican) in an election two years ago to where this latest congressman was caught having an affair with a woman who worked in his office. Two years ago these networks went right after Foley 24/7 because of an internet sex scandal.

When I talk about smears on "Joe", I refer to went the drive-by puts out personal info on him like he's not a union member, he doesn't have a license, and his back taxes. They make him look bad to half of America because he's not in a union. So what! Makes it look like he's doing something criminal because he doesn't have a plumbers license. So what! His employer he works for has one, that's all that's needed. They throw out there he owes so much in back taxes. I don't think we know the full story on why he owes these back taxes. They have put their own spin on it to make this guy look bad to people around this country. Fox has been covering this too about what turned up on him. We also have some liberal journalists over there as well for fair and balance, something I don't see with CNN and MSNBC. With media outlets like that, journalism is just about dead these days!
ladybootscooter

Oct 20 @ 12:25AM  
While they're digging up all the facts on Obama and William Ayers, lets also take a deeper look at John McClain and his longtime close association with G. Gordon Liddy! I mean while we're getting at the truth of candidate's associations with terroristic characters!

John and His friends

C'mon Shawn you're old enough to remember Watergate.
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 20 @ 12:32AM  
C'mon Shawn you're old enough to remember Watergate.

I think you really need to work on your math there. I was about 6 when that hit...
ladybootscooter

Oct 20 @ 12:39AM  
Gosh, sorry about that. I guess I assumed all folks were as socially conscious at an early age as I was.
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 20 @ 12:44AM  
Gosh, sorry about that. I guess I assumed all folks were as socially conscious at an early age as I was.

lol....I don't think too many 6 year olds pay a whole lot of attention to politics at that age.

Btw, Wasn't McCain released as a P.O.W. about that time?
swyeter

Oct 20 @ 11:58AM  
Like I have told you in emails I normally do not get into political debates because they are opinionated unless it can be proved or disproved with FACTS and even when facts are presented too often they will not be accepted because a party would rather hold to their opinion than accept facts.

So though I do not care to “debate” this because it is opinionated I will throw out some “observations” because of some of the statements you have made.

NBC led the charge and went after "Joe" after "Joe" asked a question to Obama that was not very flattering to Obama

Shawn, I watch CNN, FOX and MSNBC. The first time I saw anything on Joe was when FOX ran the edited piece. I do not recall exact wording when they introduced it but it was something to the effect of, “We have come by some video that was sent to us that shows how Obama wants to spread the wealth.” Now while they did not say where they got it you can tell it is not from a cell phone or hand held video cam put professionally done. My “guess” would be one of the local affiliates. Does that “imply” that they offered it to the main stream and they would not show it because of the “share the wealth” comment? I do not know and frankly do not care but the point I am making is that was the first time I saw any of the video. The next day McCain mentioned Joe in a couple of his speeches on the campaign trail. The next mention I saw of Joe was initiated by McCain during the debates and Obama picked up on it and mentioned his name several times. Then the next day everyone, to include the British TV, had cameras outside his house because he had become “news” and people were asking, “Who is Joe the Plumber?”

Now Joe was not compelled to talk with them but he did. I even watched him say he did not have a plumbers license. Just as he did not have to go on any of the talk shows; Joe did it willing because he ate up his 15 minutes of fame.

Truth be known if McCain had done his homework first and not commented on the campaign trail to the effect of, “Joe is a hard working plumber who pays his taxes and hopes to own his own business someday. But Obama told him if he does work hard and becomes successful he will raise his taxes”. Now I admit that is not the “exact statement because I did paraphrase it some. But the main points were that McCain said he was a hard working plumber who pays his taxes. Fact is he is an individual who works for a plumber or plumbing company of two and that he owes taxes. He has said he does not necessarily work everyday or a 9-5 forty hour week but more of an “on call or when needed” basis. That does mean that he does not work hard when he is called but that he does have some “sit around idle time”. Maybe he is content with that arrangement and the money he makes but it would seem to me that if he was a “hard working individual who wanted to own his own company some day he would go at it different. For instance, obtain his plumbers license, tools, truck, ad in the yellow pages, etc plus a couple of “Joes” to work for him and become his own company instead of wanting to “buy” the “company” he is working for now.

He said he has been working as a plumber for about 15 years but for this individual, “company”, for 6-6 ½ years. AND that leads me to my point that I think you are missing. Is Joe a hard working, tax paying individual who wants to own his own company one day? I ask you Shawn, “If you were in the same situation and wanted to own a plumping business how many years would it take you to accomplish it? Don’t you think he could already have it if he really wanted to?”

JMHO but I think Joe has misrepresented himself.
swyeter

Oct 20 @ 12:15PM  
lol....I don't think too many 6 year olds pay a whole lot of attention to politics at that age.

Btw, Wasn't McCain released as a P.O.W. about that time?

Shawn, you do have a point on both comments.

That was about the time McCain was released as a POW and you say you were about 6 years old at the time so you probably were not aware of G. Gordon Liddy. However, it was several years later and after Liddy got out of prison that McCain and Liddy had their association. Plus when McCain was asked about his association with Liddy he stated that Liddy had served his time, etc.

That was also about the time that Bill Ayers was involved in his illegal activities and Obama was about 8 years old. Just as it was several years later and after federal charges against Ayers was dropped (in the 70s) due to prosecutorial misconduct that Obama met and served on a board with Ayers. A board which I may add also included some republician members but have you ever heard FOX mention them for having been “pals” with Ayers?
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 20 @ 4:06PM  
That was also about the time that Bill Ayers was involved in his illegal activities and Obama was about 8 years old. Just as it was several years later and after federal charges against Ayers was dropped (in the 70s) due to prosecutorial misconduct that Obama met and served on a board with Ayers. A board which I may add also included some republician members but have you ever heard FOX mention them for having been “pals” with Ayers?

That's been noted by Fox News, and with me on here. It's the fact that Obama later on assiciated with Ayers starting back in 1994-1995. Ayers may have beaten the rap years earlier, but he did state after the trial "guilty as hell and free as a bird, I love this country". Most chicagoans know of the history of this man whom Obama met up with in the mid 90's. Obama claimed that he didn't, and I find that hard to believe.
swyeter

Oct 22 @ 1:21AM  
Obama claimed that he didn't, and I find that hard to believe.

No harder than me believing you never heard of Watergate.
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 22 @ 1:34AM  
No harder than me believing you never heard of Watergate.

Not sure what relationships McCain had with anyone involved with Watergate, but NBC and CNN don't seem to be all that concerned with McCain with any link he may had later on with any involved with it at the time. Any of these people could have repented and showed remorse which Ayers cleary has not. I found out something else interesting Sunday night involving Obama and his "mentor" who is Frank Marshall Davis? (I can't remember his last name). But he clearly has spoken out for socialism. I'm all for people showing remorse and repentant along the way in life for their past mistakes, but clearly none of these associates of Obama's have not done that.
StraddleMyNose

online now!
Oct 22 @ 2:02AM  
G. Gordon Liddy

I believe he served his time in prison, and was actually remorseful for what he did from that time. I also don't believe lives were lost in Watergate, unlike some bombings that killed a few people that Ayers was involved with. I do believe that Obama had a stronger relationship with Ayers than what he's claimed.
Wordsofwit

Oct 22 @ 7:15AM  
I'm all for people showing remorse and repentant along the way in life for their past mistakes, but clearly none of these associates of Obama's have not done that.

I didn't know that Larry Craig and Richard Nixon were associates of Obama.
Wordsofwit

Oct 22 @ 7:48AM  
I'm all for people showing remorse and repentant along the way in life for their past mistakes

My most recent comment was a joke. But George W. Bush does not take any blame for any of the messes we are in at home or abroad. He is always right, usually far right. But I do have to give Bush credit for the do not call list. I liked that. The fact remains that John McCain voted with Bush 90 percent of the time and even though John McCain is a man of integrity beyond reproach, that voting record is a deal breaker. Moving into the future with those policies is saddling a dead horse.
Wordsofwit

Oct 22 @ 8:02AM  
Good lord, the attack dogs (main stream media) are out in force again

Of course they are out in force, they always are. They are everywhere. That is what reporters and journalists do. That is what the the liberal TV pundits and squawk radio conservatives do. That is what Joe Biden and Sarah Palin do. That is what you and I do. It's all the same.

But people are often very biased in their perceptions. It is kind of like an alleged date rape involving alcohol, how you feel about it depends on which end of the dick you're on.
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 22 @ 3:12PM  
Of course they are out in force, they always are. They are everywhere. That is what reporters and journalists do. That is what the the liberal TV pundits and squawk radio conservatives do. That is what Joe Biden and Sarah Palin do. That is what you and I do. It's all the same.

What right does the main stream media have to pry into anyones personal life like they did "Joe"? All the guy did was ask a simple question.

I'm all for people showing remorse and repentant along the way in life for their past mistakes, but clearly none of these associates of Obama's have not done that.

I didn't know that Larry Craig and Richard Nixon were associates of Obama.

Who said they were? With friends like Ayers, Rev. Wright, and Russo who all have no remorse for anything they have said or done, and for Obama to having hung out with each of them back in the 90's and today, that says a lot about Obama's character (or lack there of).
swyeter

Oct 23 @ 2:00PM  
Right, wrong or indifferent Ayers was considered a anti-war activist until recent years when it became a political issue and “terrorism” became a world in the American English vocabulary.

I do not agree with his methodology or ideology he used at the time for protesting and trying to end the war in Viet Nam. He believes that his actions had an effect and/or impact on bringing about the Viet Nam war’s conclusion and thereby saved American lives so why would/should he be apologetic for his actions.

Myself, I served in the military 65-68 and would like to believe that my service had an effect and/or impact on bringing about its conclusion and in the same mode will not apologize for my actions.

However, in retrospect, today I realize today that after over 58,000 dead, over 153,000 wounded and almost 2,000 MIA still unaccounted for Nixon waved the “white flag of surrender” and withdrew basically making a lot of individual’s personal sacrifice meaningless.
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 23 @ 3:09PM  
for Nixon waved the “white flag of surrender” and withdrew basically making a lot of individual’s personal sacrifice meaningless.

I will agree with you on this one.

Everything else in our long debate, we'll have to pretty much agree to disagree.
swyeter

Oct 24 @ 11:19AM  
It is easy to twist or put a spin on anything and try and make something out of nothing. As example:

1. Why won’t someone release their birth certificate? Is it because they were not born in the US? Is it because they are not legally eligible to be president?

2. Why would someone not release their medical records? Is it because they have health problems or a life style that promotes cancer?

3. Why won’t someone release their tax records? Is it because they are rich elitist? Are they hiding the source of their income or that they do not contribute to charity?

I find it ironic that these issues came into question during the primaries for both candidates.

# 1. Last fall Ron Paul supporters suggested that John McCain could not serve as president of the United States. That was because he was born outside the United States and, therefore, not native-born, as presidents must be constitutionally.

McCain was, in fact, born in a U.S. military hospital in the Panama Canal Zone, where his father was serving in the Navy. That was, in fact, American-controlled territory at the time. More importantly, his parents were both American citizens, so he could have been born on Mars and still been an American at birth.

There were also rumors about Barack Obama's birthplace, that he was really born in his father's native Kenya, so he can't become a U.S. president.

Fact is he was born in Hawaii but even if he was born in Kenya the same rule would apply as for him as McCain. Obama's mother was an American; therefore so is her son.

# 2. McCain’s health recently came into question again when showed up on the campaign trail with a patch on his neck where it appeared he had something removed. Over the past 15 years, McCain has had four episodes of melanoma, a sometimes deadly form of skin cancer, and other instances of non-melanoma skin cancer. The removal of one left the prominent scar on the left side of his face but he hasn't faced melanoma since 2002. He also has high cholesterol and a few other issues, though none that is particularly unusual for a man his age.

Obama’s health came into question when some reports asked why he hides his history of smoking and a family history of cancer? Not really; the family’s history of cancer has always been public knowledge and he has publicly stated he has been chewing Nicorette in an effort to try and quit; “again”. He also stated it was because of his daughters and wife asking he quit and it also was not the right message to send as a public official.

# 3. Throughout his political career McCain has released his tax information but not his wife’s (until very recently) because they have always filed separately. It has been “suggested” in the past that since she is a multimillionaire McCain could be voting on legislation that could be favorable or unfavorable to her holdings. Since her fortune is derived from the liquor industry there has also been some talk in the past about the “ethics” for the means of her fortune.
During the Democratic primary his opponents attempted to cause controversy that Obama's tax records had significantly increased during the last two filings and what he did or did not contribute to charity. He has always filed a joint tax return with his wife and the additional income was from a book he authored. He had contributed about 1% of their income to charity before the increase in income and about 4.7% after the increase.

Both McCain and Obama paid about 28% in income tax which, ironically, is the same as I paid (not total tax but percentage).


So I got no problem with agreeing to disagree; but would like to know when I asked
I ask you Shawn, “If you were in the same situation and wanted to own a plumping business how many years would it take you to accomplish it? Don’t you think he could already have it if he really wanted to?”

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me on that had you wanted to own a two person plumbing you could have accomplished it in less than 15 years?
StraddleMyNose

online now!
Oct 24 @ 2:18PM  
So I got no problem with agreeing to disagree; but would like to know when I asked


I ask you Shawn, “If you were in the same situation and wanted to own a plumping business how many years would it take you to accomplish it? Don’t you think he could already have it if he really wanted to?”

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me on that had you wanted to ow

We don't know what circumstances on why "Joe" doesn't have his own plumbing business right now. But one thing is for sure, under Obama's tax plan, his dream will be harder to achieve and hard to make a success out of once he did.
swyeter

Oct 25 @ 1:32AM  
I have asked the question three times now and you still have not answered, “Had you wanted to own a two person plumbing company could you have accomplished it in less than 15 years?”

Be for real Shawn, how long does it take to get a plumber’s license. I checked with the local Vocational School and they said it depended on several variables. Are they going to attend full time or part time, days or evenings, are they employed with a plumber (they can get work credit if they are). But basically if one applied themselves they should be able to pass the exam in 12-24 months. With license in hand he would need a truck and some tools.

You are correct though in that
We don't know what circumstances on why "Joe" doesn't have his own plumbing business right now.

We don’t know but here's two possibilities. (1) He has had some really, really shitty luck the last 15 years or (2) He really isn’t very motivated or self driven.
StraddleMyNose

online now!
Oct 25 @ 1:49AM  
“Had you wanted to own a two person plumbing company could you have accomplished it in less than 15 years?”

John, people change careers from time to time in their life. I have no idea how long it takes to get a plumbers license. If that's what I would want I would try to have it in no time. But "Joe" has a son to raise, and works, and who knows what else that's going on in his life. As for a two person company, how did you get the number of two? I haven't heard any number thrown how about how many employees "Joe" would have once he went into opening up his business.

2) He really isn’t very motivated or self driven.

Could be, I can see this. But it wouldn't change the fact that if he ever did get his own plumbing business, with who knows how many employees working for him, he would be totally taxed to death under Omaba's plan if he made over $250,000 (which is likely he would). What's it matter about what goes on in his personal life? This is what would happen (being taxed to death under Obama's plan) if anyone else would want to go into business making more than $250,000. I also heard in the news today that Obama wants to nationalize all the 401k's now with part of his plan. Sounds more and more like socialism when he keeps presenting more of his ideas and plans.
ladybootscooter

Oct 25 @ 2:10AM  
Perhaps if Samuel Wurzelbacher a.k.a. Joe the Plumber made more money he could afford to pay his outstanding court costs and fines from his time in Arizona?? Then perhaps he could get his drivers license back in AZ so he could legally qualify for a drivers license in OH. Therefore he would be eligible to obtain an actual plumbers license in OH as well.
swyeter

Oct 25 @ 2:14AM  
If you listened to the entire dialog between Joe and Obama and other media reports you would know that Joe stated that he wanted to someday buy the company he worked for. Also, if you look at the reports and what Joe has admitted the “company” he works for consists of the owner, Al Newell, and himself? That is what I have been trying to illustrate; just exactly would Joe be buying? Instead of buying the company I think it would be just as easy or easier to start my own.
swyeter

Oct 25 @ 2:27AM  
What Obama told him was that if you were a small business man he would to tax you less if you made less than $250K to help enable you to grow faster and become successful, BUT, when/if you did succeed to a point where you are making more that $250K he would tax the over $250K at a 3% greater rate than the under $250K. How does that equate to being “totally taxed to death”.

Just a thought but I doubt there is many, if any, on AMD that make over $250K a year; I know I don’t. Now I cannot speak for you or anyone else on AMD but I wonder how many would be pissed if they did make $250K or would be terribly pissed if they had to pay an additional 3% in tax on any amount of money they made over $250K.
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 25 @ 2:28AM  
Perhaps if Samuel Wurzelbacher a.k.a. Joe the Plumber made more money he could afford to pay his outstanding court costs and fines from his time in Arizona?? Then perhaps he could get his drivers license back in AZ so he could legally qualify for a drivers license in OH. Therefore he would be eligible to obtain an actual plumbers license in OH as well.

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. None of us should know this, and it's really no ones business as to how all this was obtained. NBC and CNN (with NBC leading the charge) went and investigated "Joe" all because he dared ask a question that made Obama look bad. What right do they have to pry into someone's life for the sake in trying to destroy someone? They have no right! I have learned some time ago that both of these networks make a habit of attacking and throwing out lies and half truths. Stormy, have you ever watched Fox News? If you try it you will actually see fair and balance concerning both parties. It amazes me that so many people will trash Fox News without having ever watched it. Most people only go with what they hear about Fox News. To me that's not very open minded, but rather closeminded. I have watched them all, and some of what I hear when watching the two (NBC and CNN) are things taken out of context, with some lies, and half truths. Sometimes they get the story right, but a lot of the times it's totally onesided and BS. One of those instances I saw was on CNN two days ago with a Palin interview in "the Situation Room" where the CNN host of that show read a National Review article to Palin about her that he took out of context in order to insult her intelligence. The reporter never apologized for doing that, but I believe CNN finally issued one because FOX News applied the needed pressure on them by reporting what they had done.
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 25 @ 2:38AM  
would be terribly pissed if they had to pay an additional 3% in tax on any amount of money they made over $250K

I think the problem most people have with this is how it's going to be distrubted. It's taking from the rich and giving to the poor which means more welfare and handouts than what we see now. I don't like taxes, but I know some taxes are needed, but to have people "share the wealth" when they're making so much is not right.
ladybootscooter

Oct 25 @ 2:59AM  
Shawn, first off, it is very important who Mr. Wurzelbacher is, IF it turns out that he is actually related to Robert Wurzelbacher, the son-in-law of Charles Keating of the "Keating Five". Whom John McCain was accused of improperly aiding. The very fact that Samuel Wurzelbacher once lived in AZ and just "happened" to be in the area when Senator Obama was in OH campaigning.......a few too many coincidences if you ask me. And I'm not alone in this. IF it turns out that he is a "plant" and not the undecided voter he purported himself to be originally, it could very well mean that John McCain has ran the dirtiest campaign in the history of our great Nation. Besides Watergate that is. There let's not forget John's good buddy of whom he is so proud, G. Gordon Liddy. When the RNC wants to bring up domestic terroists, they shouldn't forget to throw his name in the pot as well.
As for where I get my news. I get it from all sources. Yes I have watched Fox news, or as I prefer to call it "Faux news". I've never seen more biased reporting in my life. As a former journalist and writer I'm ashamed that anyone could possibly call that responsible journalism. As to the insulting of Governor Palin's intelligence, wouldn't that require that she actually had some first? Anyone grown adult, especially an elected official that cannot name any Supreme Court decisions other than Roe v. Wade? Most fifth graders can also list Brown v The Board of Education. Sadly I feel that she is out of her league and no where near ready to be literally a heartbeat away from the Presidency.
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 25 @ 3:35AM  
Shawn, first off, it is very important who Mr. Wurzelbacher is, IF it turns out that he is actually related to Robert Wurzelbacher, the son-in-law of Charles Keating of the "Keating Five". Whom John McCain was accused of improperly aiding. The very fact that Samuel Wurzelbacher once lived in AZ and just "happened" to be in the area when Senator Obama was in OH campaigning.......a few too many coincidences if you ask me. And I'm not alone in this. IF it turns out that he is a "plant" and not the undecided voter he purported himself to be originally, it could very well mean that John McCain has ran the dirtiest campaign in the history of our great Nation. Besides Watergate that is.

I believe Obama knocked on "Joe's" door. All "Joe" did was ask a simple question. Even if they planted "Joe" (snicker), how on earth would this be considered the dirtiest campaign in history? I honestly doubt that he was planted. The main stream media wants to try to make connections there with anything and everything possible. McCain was actaully cleared of the "Keating Five".

G. Gordon Liddy.

He paid his debt to society and was also rependant about what he did unlike Ayers. Ayers involvement killed and injured people in domestic bombings. That's far worst than what Liddy ever done (again, he paid his debt to society and repented).

Yes I have watched Fox news, or as I prefer to call it "Faux news". I've never seen more biased reporting in my life. As a former journalist and writer I'm ashamed that anyone could possibly call that responsible journalism.


Most people know where to come for truth. FOX News isn't rated for # 1 for nothing. I also have to totally disagree with you on this one about seeing the most biased reporting ever seen in my life. It used to be CNN being the worst, but this election NBC has taken that crown from CNN. Both are so biased and corrupt in the reporting that it makes me ill to even try to sat and watch what they say.

As for where I get my news. I get it from all sources.

I really haven't heard a lot of this in any of the media. So I'm going to have to assume that it's coming from average left wing nuts spreading this shit around like you claim right wing people spreading around Obama being muslim and isn't a true U.S. citizen.

As to the insulting of Governor Palin's intelligence, wouldn't that require that she actually had some first? Anyone grown adult, especially an elected official that cannot name any Supreme Court decisions other than Roe v. Wade?

Now you're coming off as a nasty liberal with this remark. Not good, Stormy. Since you want to talk about a vice president candidate and their intelligence, lets talk about Biden. Gee, the guy can't shut up long enough with all the gaffs he's making. Didn't he state that in 1929 FDR was in office and TV was around? He also didn't know what the role of the vice presidents job was other than just offering support and voting a tie breaker in the senate. He had some more goofs along the way...Palin from what I see is very intelligent. The media knows she's a threat and will try their level best to discredit her before the election with a few traps here, a few traps there in interviews. I have seen many lies on her. Journalism is dead over at CNN and NBC.
sundance64

Oct 25 @ 9:20AM  
I'm only going to comment on the tax issue here...since this is something that was brought up by "Joe the Plumber" and is what has given him his 15 minutes of fame.

What most people fail to realize is that the current tax law is a 3% decrease that was put into effect in I believe 2002. This was a decrease that affected large companies capitol gains...and will cease to be in effect in 2010 unless it is brought up again as a new bill for Congress to vote on. So...basically, Obama's plan is to bring taxes back to where they just after Bush took office for his first term.

My question is this; people who were paying 3% more in taxes 10 years ago weren't struggling then. Of course we were in a completely different state of economy at that time...but businesses were booming and unemployment was at least 3% lower nationwide than it is today.

As for "spreading the wealth"...we've seen how well trickle down economics works for this country...it doesn't. Not when there is no regulation and no oversight for the large corporations that are benefiting from their lowered taxes. In order to give tax breaks to the middle class and still be able to build up the economy and confidence on Wall Street...someone has to pay more. If it isn't the large companies...then who will it be? The middle class...regardless of who gets into the White House.
StraddleMyNose

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Oct 25 @ 12:08PM  
State and local officials are investigating whether state and law-enforcement computer systems were used illegally to obtain personal information about "Joe the Plumber."

Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher became part of the national political lexicon Oct. 15 when Republican presidential nominee John McCain mentioned him frequently during his final debate with Democrat Barack Obama.

The 34-year-old from the Toledo suburb of Holland is held out by McCain as an example of an American who would be harmed by Obama's tax proposals.

Public records requested by The Dispatch disclose that information on Wurzelbacher's driver's license or his sport-utility vehicle was pulled from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles database three times shortly after the debate.

Information on Wurzelbacher was accessed through accounts assigned to the office of Ohio Attorney General Nancy H. Rogers, the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency and the Toledo Police Department.

It has not been determined who checked on Wurzelbacher, or why. Direct access to driver's license and vehicle registration information from BMV computers is restricted to legitimate law-enforcement and government business.

Paul Lindsay, Ohio spokesman for the McCain campaign, called the inquiries politically motivated. "It's outrageous to see how quickly Barack Obama's allies would abuse government power in an attempt to smear a private citizen who dared to ask a legitimate question," he said.

Isaac Baker, Obama's Ohio spokesman, called Lindsay's statement charges of desperation from a campaign running out of time.

"Invasions of privacy should not be tolerated. If these records were accessed inappropriately, it had nothing to do with our campaign and should be investigated fully," he said.

The attorney general's office is investigating whether the access of Wurzelbacher's BMV information through the office's Ohio Law Enforcement Gateway computer system was unauthorized, spokeswoman Jennifer Brindisi said.

"We're trying to pinpoint where it came from," she said. The investigation could become "criminal in nature," she said. Brindisi would not identify the account that pulled the information on Oct. 16.

Records show it was a "test account" assigned to the information technology section of the attorney general's office, said Department of Public Safety spokesman Thomas Hunter.

Brindisi later said investigators have confirmed that Wurzelbacher's information was not accessed within the attorney general's office. She declined to provide details. The office's test accounts are shared with and used by other law enforcement-related agencies, she said.

On Oct. 17, BMV information on Wurzelbacher was obtained through an account used by the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency in Cleveland, records show.

Mary Denihan, spokeswoman for the county agency, said the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services contacted the agency yesterday and requested an investigation of the access to Wurzelbacher's information. Cuyahoga County court records do not show any child-support cases involving Wurzelbacher.

The State Highway Patrol, which administers the Law Enforcement Automated Data System in Ohio, asked Toledo police to explain why it pulled BMV information on Wurzelbacher within 48 hours of the debate, Hunter said.

The LEADS system also can be used to check for warrants and criminal histories, but such checks would not be reflected on the records obtained by The Dispatch.

Sgt. Tim Campbell, a Toledo police spokesman, said he could not provide any information because the department had learned of the patrol's inquiry only yesterday.

Stormy, this article was in the Columbus newspaper today. Also, Cuyahoga County is mostly democrat as well, so where this took place doesn't surprise me any.

SunnyD, I beg the differ with you on Reaganomics. I saw where it did work throughout the 1980's.
swyeter

Oct 25 @ 5:21PM  
I think the problem most people have with this is how it's going to be distrubted. It's taking from the rich and giving to the poor which means more welfare and handouts than what we see now. I don't like taxes, but I know some taxes are needed, but to have people "share the wealth" when they're making so much is not right.

Now that is an assumption! No where and no time have I heard either candidate speak on the subject of welfare. Obama does have something on his web site that speaks of people having to work to collect but I have not read it so I cannot comment as to how he proposes it work. They have both basically limited their themselves to speaking on the economy, education, health care and defense.

As you indicated, you got to remember that taxes are used to build roads and bridges, fund national defense, education, etc, etc. To make an assumption that any such additional tax would be used soley for welfare is presumptuous. It could also be used to help the small business person making less that $250K in small business loans, incentive cuts to provide health care to their employees, etc, etc.

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"Joe" the plumber